Intralogistics in transition: An interview with Peter Kazander

VAHLE: Mr Kazander, you invented the leading trade fair LogiMAT, so to speak, and have shaped it for over 20 years. What are you particularly proud of?

Peter Kazander : Invented is perhaps the wrong word, but yes, I was allowed to design, organise and further develop LogiMAT from day one. What has worked out really well, of course, is continuous growth and the fact that what we started very small in 2003, with just 3 employees and 160 exhibitors, is now the largest intralogistics trade fair in the world. But that was never my primary goal, the exhibitors did that together with us. The exhibitors are our partners and that's how we treat each other. I am incredibly proud of the fact that we have maintained this family-orientated approach, even today with more than 1,600 exhibitors from 40 countries.

VAHLE : Your trade fair career was actually a coincidence...

Peter Kazander: That's right, I don't come from the trade fair industry. I'm a logistician and my last job was in software development, and then I was asked: "Do you fancy doing trade fairs?" And I thought it was exciting, so I gave it a go. Because I had no idea, I did a lot of things differently. For example, I never overcharged and then gave surrealistic discounts. At LogiMAT in Stuttgart, nobody has ever received special discounts in 20 years. Big or small, large or medium-sized, everyone pays the same. That is fairness. And what I promise, I keep. That also applies to my successor and every exhibitor at LogiMAT knows that.

VAHLE : The intralogistics industry has developed at breakneck speed over the last 20 years. Was that perhaps also your advantage, that you are a logistics expert and have your finger on the pulse?

Peter Kazander: Yes, definitely. I started out at a time when the word intralogistics had only just been invented, at the beginning of the noughties. It was certainly good to be able to jump on board right from the start. And several things happened during that time that I had absolutely no influence on. I started in Stuttgart on the Killesberg, a very small old exhibition centre. In 2007 it was already full, and in 2008 I suddenly had a new exhibition centre with its own airport. That was a perfect fit, of course.

The financial crisis came 2 years later and everything could have been different. But the exhibition centre, right next to the airport, was of course a boost for internationality and so growth was only slowed down slightly for a short time and not stopped.

VAHLE : How have the focal points of the trade fair changed thematically over time?

Peter Kazander: One thing has become very clear over the years. There used to be one company that built shelving. The next one made racking operating devices, the next forklift trucks, another packaging and yet another the software. It was also very easy to organise the hall layout for the trade fair because it was relatively clear in which areas the individual companies were active.

Today, almost all of them are intralogistics general suppliers. VAHLE is very similar: over time, the company has developed from a pure conductor rail manufacturer to a comprehensive solution provider. Companies are now much more broadly positioned. That's exciting, I find that really formative.

VAHLE: Absolutely - and that brings us to the question: Which technological trends are particularly trend-setting for you?

Peter Kazander: Even if the answer sounds boring: At the moment it's clearly AI, and not so much for AI's sake, but how is it being used to make processes even smarter, faster or more sustainable - or to optimise all 3, so that's definitely the trend at the moment.

VAHLE : But of course it will change companies and also the skilled labour and deployment of personnel in the long term, right?

Peter Kazander: Definitely, it will change entire processes. But AI isn't better than humans, it's just faster. That's my opinion, which is not appreciated by everyone. Where everyone agrees, however, is that it will of course lead to insane demands, especially on staff. We have a shortage of skilled labour, but it's not enough to say: We're automating everything now. We need people who still have to actively manage the whole thing.
So there is a changed need for education. We don't all have to become Masters of Science now, but many jobs are being reorganised. And we have to be lifelong learners, otherwise we'll become obsolete and won't be able to work productively in the company until we retire. Instead of bringing more experience to the company as I get older, I will become "dumber" without further training and that cannot and must not be the case. We will also need these older employees in the future, so we need to completely reassess the issue of training. Every company has to make this possible, it has an educational mission that it has never had before.

VAHLE: You mentioned sustainability. It used to be said that we had to save a bit of electricity, then we would already be sustainable and energy-efficient. Of course, this will continue to develop...

Peter Kazander: Sustainability definitely plays a huge role. Energy, especially in Germany, is expensive. So you first have to use less energy. Of course, a device can be designed to use less energy for the same task, and this technology is constantly improving.

But when we talk about warehouses and intralogistics, there is a lot more energy efficiency to be gained from process optimisation in particular.
If, for example, I simply move individual devices less because they are all much better coordinated, then there is huge potential. However, process optimisation and therefore energy efficiency do not stop in the warehouse. There are many process stages along the production and supply chains. We're talking about global flows of goods.

VAHLE: That's a good keyword. Let's move on to the international markets. Why are regions such as South East Asia and India in particular increasingly becoming the focus of the industry? Why is that?

Peter Kazander : Let's take China and Vietnam as two examples. China used to be the workbench of the West. We invented everything and then had it manufactured cheaply in China. It took a relatively long time, several decades, for China to realise this, compensate for it and take advantage of it. The same thing is happening in Vietnam, for example. Vietnam is now China's workbench, but certainly not for much longer. Today we have a different, more open form of communication worldwide, we can no longer "hide" knowledge. We put all our knowledge on the internet and then expect others not to use it. That doesn't work.
And even if I never talk about politics as a trade fair organiser, there are geopolitical developments. And there are very specific examples of how India and Southeast Asia in particular are benefiting from this: The largest e-car manufacturer in the world, BYD from China, has now built a plant in Bangkok. Why? If the major powers start slapping tariffs on each other, BYD will start building somewhere else.
Another example: over 70% of iPhones are already built in India and MacBooks are almost exclusively manufactured in Thailand. So the fact that we produce in Asia is good for us and good for Asia, but then of course the question is: where in Asia do I produce? And Southeast Asia and India in particular are benefiting from this at the moment. That's why we're increasingly focussing on them.

VAHLE: You mentioned it: China, Thailand, India... today LogiMAT is not only present in Stuttgart, but also in precisely these countries. What was the original motivation for this internationalisation?

Peter Kazander: To be honest, China was more of a coincidence. Others tried to motivate me to export LogiMAT to China and made China palatable to me. It was similar in Thailand and India later on. We only ever went abroad where our later local partners invited us to do so. In my opinion, that's also a better way to get started because you have local partners right away. That's incredibly important, because there are huge cultural differences and you have to respect them. You need partners there too, otherwise you will make endless mistakes.

VAHLE : Can you give us an example? What is so different about doing business there than in Europe?

Peter Kazander: Let's take China as an example. They say that Chinese people only do business with family or friends. So you invest a lot of time in China.

People meet very often, chat, get to know each other without talking about business. Often, only the last 2-3 sentences at a meeting are business-related, which is very different to us. It's different again in India, where you know where you stand more quickly, which makes it a bit easier for us Europeans. And Southeast Asia is differentiated. 10 countries, 10 cultures, all more or less different. I've always called it culture hopping and I find it incredibly exciting, really great.

VAHLE : How were the trade fairs in Bangkok and Mumbai received by exhibitors and visitors?

Peter Kazander : We started in Bangkok in 2019, just before the coronavirus pandemic - so with almost three years of standstill. That set us back a bit at the beginning, but things are now going very well. LogiMAT Southeast Asia is growing and has been very well received by international trade visitors. Of course, the Bangkok location is also a not insignificant factor. (laughs) Who doesn't like being in Bangkok?

India is a world of its own. I've never experienced anything like India in 20 years of organising trade fairs. From the very first day of the fair, it was simply bombastic, with an incredible amount of expertise and fantastic support from associations and also from government circles, so really at the very highest level. The trade visitors are hungry for knowledge and are actively seeking dialogue, including with international exhibitors. India is definitely the market of the future.

VAHLE : So would you say that India and Southeast Asia also play a major role for companies that want to open up new markets, especially for medium-sized companies like VAHLE?

Peter Kazander: Yes. India definitely. India is positively aggressive, Southeast Asia is of course somewhat more differentiated due to the fact that there are different countries and cultures.

It is also important to note that "Made in Germany" still has great value in Southeast Asia and India, and the trade fairs are accompanied by German teams on site. This makes it possible for exhibitors to score points with well-organised German contacts on site with a manageable budget, opening up attractive opportunities for medium-sized companies in particular to tap into new markets.

VAHLE : We talked a lot about South East Asia and China earlier. What role will Europe play in global competition in the future?

Peter Kazander : If you look at the markets, everyone actually wants the same thing. I've always compared it to a kind of race. We have a few athletes, Europe and Asia and the USA and the Middle East and so on. The finish line is the same for everyone. They all want the same high efficiency, top technology and cost reduction. The difference is that the starting blocks are not all next to each other. The starting block Europe is a little further ahead of the starting block Thailand or Vietnam. Somewhere along the line is another starting block, the USA - and another starting block that is coming fast and furious: Africa.

Now they all start running, but then comes the second difference: they don't all have the same motivation, Europe and USA are running to win.
South East Asia is running to be in the top 10. And India only runs to finish faster than China. The mindset is different, but that doesn't change the technologies they need to be successful in the end.

VAHLE : And what developments do you expect to see in intralogistics over the next 5 to 10 years?

Peter Kazander: Another example besides AI. Automated guided vehicles also show how quickly technology is developing. In the past, perhaps 12 hours of operation, 12 hours of charging. With today's charging technology, they work for 18 hours and charge for 6 hours. But that's still 6 hours of standing around, which is rubbish. The AGV has to run for 24 hours and the power has to go to the device, not the other way round. Just like with VAHLE's contactless energy transmission. Hybrid AGVs run flexibly on batteries and recharge them on certain routes during operation - so they are always ready for use and no time is wasted. VAHLE has recognised the signs of the times.

VAHLE : If you were to start all over again today, would you do everything the same way again?

Peter Kazander: I think I would do it all over again. In particular, I would do it with the same mentality and exactly the same team. The LogiMAT team in the background is often overlooked. Yet it makes such a big contribution to the success of LogiMAT. So, I am satisfied and delighted that "my" LogiMAT is being carried on so well by the next generation.

VAHLE: Yes, it's nice to be able to say that at the end. Mr Kazander, thank you very much for the interview.

Peter Kazander: With pleasure.